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Post by Smithee on Aug 2, 2013 4:06:13 GMT 10
"mental health" calling other ppl crazy is impolite. u may want to express your opinion in a different manner. "delete posts not for vulgarity or abuse" i found this post rather abusive. Calling a spade a spade is to speak the truth. Masons are taught not to prevaricate.
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Post by Tamrin on Aug 2, 2013 8:17:14 GMT 10
"mental health" calling other ppl crazy is impolite. u may want to express your opinion in a different manner. "delete posts not for vulgarity or abuse" i found this post rather abusive. Calling a spade a spade is to speak the truth. Masons are taught not to prevaricate. Well said. Not mentioning mental health in this context would be like avoiding the elephant in the room. Moreover, where people mention their experiences with mental health professionals, its seems a bit precious for them to then insist that others may not raise the topic, even where clearly relevant. Indeed, the stigma of mental health problems is largely due to avoidance of the subject (it becomes a shameful "unmentionable"). Where relevant to the issue at hand, the subject of mental health needs to be put firmly on the table and addressed. Mental health problems do not affect three or four out of every five persons but one out of one
Karl Menninger
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Post by Smithee on Aug 2, 2013 18:49:07 GMT 10
It seems that the meaning of Esoteric in the title of this forum is not well understood. es•o•ter•ic [es-uh-ter-ik] adjective 1. understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest; recondite: poetry full of esoteric allusions. 2. belonging to the select few. 3. private; secret; confidential. 4. (of a philosophical doctrine or the like) intended to be revealed only to the initiates of a group: the esoteric doctrines of Pythagoras. How would there be a "right of reply" by the non-esoteric? Would that reply be by a spokesman for exoteric Masonry? You wrongly imply that I deny the existence of esoteric Freemasonry. What I deny is that the nonsense discussed here of alien founders, Bigfoot and so on, has anything to do with Freemasonry. The adjectives “esoteric” and “exoteric” when describing masonic knowledge respectively describe that which is understood only by Freemasons and that which is common knowledge. In other words, to have a genuine understanding of esoteric Freemasonry one needs to be a Freemason. Conversely, any mason ought at least to be able to recognise any relevance to Freemasonry of information when amply communicated as Esoteric Freemasonry. For example, a competent masonic scholar might present a case demonstrating the Rosicrucian influence on the Craft and be expected to be able to back it up with empirical facts and with other esoteric knowledge to which Freemasons are entitled. A regularly initiated Freemason can reasonably be expected to have both esoteric and exoteric knowledge. Freemasonry is a progressive science with information communicated sequentially and it is only upon being made a M.M. that one is able to comprehend the whole and is at liberty to make the circle of their masonic acquirements complete. What we have here is wilfully ignorant superstitious nonsense. This includes contributions by and communication to non-masons. By your own definition, this is contrary to what might be described as esoteric Freemasonry. Genuine Freemasons including those of high degree are obliged to oppose this public defamation.
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Post by Smithee on Aug 3, 2013 14:28:17 GMT 10
i think we should do the best we can I believe that we have to content ourselves with what we have until something better comes along with our imperfect knowledge and understanding . and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem - the most important of all human problems. "Please explain." its elementary, my dear skeptic; morals would not exist if it wasnt for self aware lifeforms (like u). self aware lifeforms would not exist if it wasnt for the existence of the universe (or perhaps its the other way round, but meh). therefor: "in order for morality not to exist (edit: in the universe), u can not exist." So it is NOT that morality cannot exist without ME but rather that things LIKE me need to exist. That was the point of my Terry Pratchett quote and somehow you still managed to put the cart before the horse.
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Post by Smithee on Aug 3, 2013 14:36:43 GMT 10
Morality is based on the mores (accepted traditional customs and usages of a particular social group) and hence morality is predicated on the existence of individuals formed into groups. Agreed, yet from this you somehow arrive at moral relativism. “We should challenge the relativism that tells us there is no right or wrong, when every instinct of our mind knows it is not so, and is a mere excuse to allow us to indulge in what we believe we can get away with. A world without values quickly becomes a world without value.” - Jonathan Sacks. Relativism (also known as Nihilism) - Be it moral, intellectual or cultural, is the big lie of post-modernism (including the 1613 and A406 kinds); the last refuge of the unscrupulous, the deceitful and the culpable. Want to act on impulse? Got a guilty conscience? Having trouble facing up to the consequences of your actions? Try Relativism, as used by scoundrels since time immemorial. Arguably boosted by a simplistic misunderstand of relativity in physics (in much the same way that evolution in biology has been misapplied to diverse, irrelevant disciplines), relativism is self-defeating: Paradoxically, even if Relativism is true, arguments against it need no justification, as advocates of it, if consistent, must acknowledge those arguments to be as valid as theirs. Instead we find that, your truth is true only if it is true. While some truths may be relative, some truths are True. In other words they correspond with an objective reality. Morality is an abstract human construct - that does not mean it unfounded. Justifiable morality has a logical imperative and is the crowning achievement of humanity. It does not require an external, imposed code of conduct, by way of religion. Humanism can and has constructed its own code, beginning with Protagoras having said, “Man is the measure of all things” (the principle might be extended to include all life), we find that even external codes are ultimately measured by our own sense of morality (e.g., we approve of some biblical teachings and reject others). We know the difference between pleasure and pain and the difference between being happy and miserable. When we outgrow our infant sense of solipsism and recognise these feelings in others we arrive at the Golden Rule and then can and have begun to unfold its implications and limitations for personal and collective conduct. "Relativism poses as humble by saying: “We are not smart enough to know what the truth is — or if there is any universal truth.” It sounds humble. But look carefully at what is happening. It’s like a servant saying: I am not smart enough to know which person here is my master — or if I even have a master. The result is that I don’t have a master and I can be my own master. That is in reality what happens to relativists: In claiming to be too lowly to know the truth, they exalt themselves as supreme arbiter of what they can think and do. This is not humility. This is the essence of pride.” - John Piper.
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Post by Smithee on Aug 3, 2013 22:32:34 GMT 10
I just ban people who lack couth. Only had to ban three in the life of the forum. Amazing, when you think about it. We must be doing something right. So are people you consider couth those who humour your delusions and call a spade a manual geomorphological modification implement?
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Post by Smithee on Aug 4, 2013 10:38:20 GMT 10
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Post by Smithee on Aug 4, 2013 19:38:40 GMT 10
Which Obedience in Freemasonry permits communicating esoteric masonic matters to cowans and intruders? Well where do I start? This question is the crux of your post. The answer is that you become a Freemason. Unless and until then you are welcome to discuss exoteric masonic matters but have not business or credibility in discussing esoteric masonic matters. Your misguided presumption in doing so counts against your acceptance, as does you being the only known source of tales suggesting you may be "the one," whatever that means. Sadly while you might have reapplied, I think you have blown any chance you may have once had. If I became aware of enquiries as part of investigations into an application by you, I would feel honour bound to guard the west gate by providing an adverse report. If and when you were accepted, the way into esoteric masonic circles is to ask questions showing you seek more light. If not mobbed, you will at least find doors left open for you.
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Post by Smithee on Aug 4, 2013 20:39:32 GMT 10
Esoteric Freemasonry includes our masonic secrets, which are necessary to comprehend the whole. Rubbish! Were all the saints in all the faiths in all of history Freemasons? That defies reason, upon which you place so much emphasis. Love is the key. Resonance. That special something which is indefinable. Like attracts like. Love is what raises us up. Without love All is lost.... for the time being. For no-one is lost in the end, Love is infinitely patient. Rubbish indeed. Not everything is masonic, not every saint in all of history was a Freemason. That is my point. Esoteric Freemasonry is to do with masonic matters, not with everything to which the adjective "esoteric" may in whatever sense be applied. “As it is the chief concern of wise men, to retrench the evils of life, by reasonings of philosophy; so it is the employment of fools, to multiply them, by sentiments of superstition.” - Bro. Wellins Calcott. Without truth All is lost.
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Post by Smithee on Aug 6, 2013 0:20:08 GMT 10
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