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Post by Tamrin on Jan 20, 2012 4:09:46 GMT 10
So, should the world simply print money? All things being equal, no. But where sound Keynesian surpluses haven't been accumulated in times of growth and when banks reduce lending (reducing the money supply), short term measures may be warranted.
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Post by brandt on Jan 20, 2012 12:14:01 GMT 10
Is "short term measures" a euphemism for legalized theft?
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Post by Tamrin on Jan 20, 2012 14:44:49 GMT 10
Is "legalized theft" an oxymoron?
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Post by brandt on Jan 20, 2012 16:39:57 GMT 10
No, unless a government can do anything necessary for short term benefit.
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Post by Tamrin on Jan 21, 2012 6:15:00 GMT 10
Is "legalized theft" an oxymoron? Grammarian and lawyers may disagree with you. unless a government can do anything necessary for short term benefit. Such as stimulus packages?
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Post by brandt on Jan 21, 2012 7:12:47 GMT 10
Such as stimulus packages. Where does the money come from? If it taxes, those taxes are not used to run the legitimate functions of government but are distributed to those that did nothing to earn the money. If it isn't taxes but borrowed from another state or simply more fiat printed currency then the theft is still there but far more subtle.
Is it theft to steal no matter what the thieves need is? Since we are going to rely upon grammarians and lawyers. Is it still theft?
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Post by Tamrin on Jan 21, 2012 20:47:49 GMT 10
Such as stimulus packages. The long run (on a long enough time line) always ends in death. Sure, some things were done to keep the ship of nation afloat. Those will have to be paid for. We can tighten the belt and pay for it or turn on the printing press and make more of it. Where does the money come from? If it taxes, those taxes are not used to run the legitimate functions of government but are distributed to those that did nothing to earn the money. Is wealth or lack thereof a reliable indicator of a subject's time, effort and merit? If it isn't taxes but borrowed from another state or simply more fiat printed currency then the theft is still there but far more subtle. Your argument might carry more weight without hyperbole (I might even agree). Is it theft to steal no matter what the thieves need is? Since we are going to rely upon grammarians and lawyers. Is it still theft? Is it murder to kill in self defense?
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Post by brandt on Jan 22, 2012 2:04:57 GMT 10
Wealth (money) is the indicator we all seem to agree upon.
To pay for a stimulus the money must come from somewhere. It can come from taxes which would be money taken from some people and given to others. This would have nothing to do with running legitimate functions of government. Another source of the money can be a loan from another state. That money has to be paid back with revenue from taxes. Again, money taken from others to service debt and to pay the principle (hopefully). In any case it results in money taken from some and given to others. This is fine if we are to believe that it is the function of government to take the property of some and give it to others.
Murder is taking the life of another unjustly. Theft is taking another's property unjustly.
I am sure that we can agree that murder is wrong because it violates the right to life. Can we agree that theft is also wrong?
Is it theft to steal no matter what the thief's need is?
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Post by Tamrin on Jan 22, 2012 10:43:29 GMT 10
Is wealth or lack thereof a reliable indicator of a subject's time, effort and merit? Wealth (money) is the indicator we all seem to agree upon. Speak for yourself. I do not agree. For instance, tribalism, nepotism and cronyism play a huge part. I believe the first function of government to aid and protect its most vulnerable citizens. Murder is taking the life of another unjustly. Theft is taking another's property unjustly. Agreed. I am sure that we can agree that murder is wrong because it violates the right to life. Can we agree that theft is also wrong? Yes, according to the afore given definition: Not however taking another's property justly. Is it theft to steal no matter what the thief's need is? I'd need to know the circumstances of the particular instance.
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Post by Tamrin on Jan 22, 2012 10:53:37 GMT 10
Is wealth or lack thereof a reliable indicator of a subject's time, effort and merit? Work is of two kinds: first, altering the position of matter at or near the earth's surface relatively to other such matter; second, telling other people to do so. The first kind is unpleasant and ill paid; the second is pleasant and highly paid
Bertrand Russell
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