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Post by Tamrin on Jun 16, 2011 7:00:26 GMT 10
Thank you Bro. Smithee,Despite my ban, I can still view the site from another computer (different IP address). Lorraine's unnecessary, repeated references and responses since banning me are so outrageous that they do call for the exercise of my right of reply. I basically agree with what you have posted thus far. As for my opinion of the Bible (as if it were relevant), readers can get some idea from the thread here entitled ' "Biblical "Truths".' The immoral contents of much of the Bible is one of my pet themes: At best it can be described as a " curate's egg" ('partly good and partly bad, but as a result is entirely spoiled'). Like you, this is I matter I often discuss with my Brethren. While, as Lorraine states, we cannot change words once written, we can, however, discountenance them, which is what I have done. I would be interested in the outcome of Lorraine sharing what the Baileys have to say about Jews with the Jewish friends, with whom she sometimes goes to Synagogue, and with her telling them she does not have a problem with the Baileys' stance.
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Post by Tamrin on Jun 17, 2011 7:07:41 GMT 10
I am surprised Rabbi Gershom provided so few anti-Semitic quotes from the Baileys. Back in the early to mid 1990s I accepted an invitation to study of their works and found many more. This was one of their main themes. A few more quotes are included below. The Baileys intrusive interest in Freemasonry arises from their notion of it being one of three main channels preparing us for a new age (EH, p.511). However, while we define Freemasonry as, “ A peculiar system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols,” Foster Bailey regards it as, “A system of symbols” (SM, p.27). The distinction is made clear with him deeming morality as one of Masonry’s insufficient ‘rewards’ (SM, p.82) and he was dismissive of those Masons, “ occupied entirely with its ethical implications” (SM, p.81). This amoral attitude is particularly apparent when we consider the anti-Semitic changes the Baileys wished to impose on Freemasonry. Foster Bailey stated: “ Masonry with its Jewish names and historical incidents, has come into serious disrepute” (SM, p.37). Alice Bailey concurred, stating: “ This Jewish colouring is today one of the main hindrances to the full expression of Masonic intention and should be changed” (RI, p.418). She went on to say: “ Its present form, resting as it does on a Jewish foundation which is nearly five thousand years old, must disappear... the ancient usages and forms consistent and right in the Jewish dispensation, are now obsolete and should be abrogated” (RI, pp.533/4). Alice Bailey wrote a chapter entitled, “The Jewish Problem” (SR, pp.393/401); She asserted that “ The major racial problem has... been the Jewish” (EH, p.194); alleged that one of only two major streams of negative energy flows from the Jews (EH, pp, 71/4); claimed that, “ Today the Jewish people are engineering trouble” (EH, p.634); and declared “ The Jews need humility more than any other nation” (RI, p.706). According to Alice Bailey, Jews are spiritually unlike any other extant life-forms and even more alien to us than hypothetical extra-terrestrials, being the remnants of a previous universe who failed to qualify for the next evolutionary stage and were therefore held over to this universe (EH, pp.76/78). Mrs. Bailey insisted of this super extra-ordinary libel: “ It is simply a fact to be accepted by you” (ibid.). However, in a forward attributed to her Tibetan Master and repeated in several books, s/he concluded, “ There can be no insistence for the acceptance of any statement, beyond what the reader can personally confirm, otherwise, ‘let not the student accept what is said’” (e.g., RI, p.vi). This student certainly does not accept what they have to say. EH = The Externalisation of the Hierarchy, by Alice Bailey RI = The Rays and the Initiations, by Alice Bailey SM = The Spirit of Masonry, by Foster Bailey SR = A Treatise on the Seven Rays, Vol. 1, by Alice Bailey
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Post by Smithee on Jun 17, 2011 17:40:00 GMT 10
Only members can now access Lorraine's forum. Seems debate is a no-no for some people.
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Post by Tamrin on Jun 18, 2011 18:22:07 GMT 10
I am disappointed in LB. I had thought she was being naively misled by RH. She is now undeniably aware of the insidious context of the agenda he shares with the Baileys, their Arcane School and AUM, to cleanse Freemasonry of its Jewish content and to usher in a "New Dispensation," yet she still will not acknowledge anything being wrong with that agenda or its Antisemitic rationale.
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Post by Gaslight on Jun 18, 2011 20:42:43 GMT 10
Their vision for a Freemasonry, "cleansed" of its Jewish context and content, and fit for their so-called "new dispensation," is to be seen in the Grand Lodge Ancient Universal Mysteries (A.U.M.), which they founded. Apologies for picking up on a thread started three years ago. I've read through all the messages and have little to say about the Baileys or Blavatsky or Besant. The comment about Jewish context and content in Freemasonry is, however, of personal interest. I find this content disturbing, and my negative reaction grows the more I have to deliver lectures drawing on events and personages from Jewish history. Is it really necessary to justify the slipshod foot by reference to the Book of Ruth? Working my way through the chairs of a Royal Arch Chapter and Cryptic Council and having to memorise the ritual, I can't count the times I struggled to find the correct Hebrew pronunciation of a name, or the meaning of a Hebrew glyph. A couple of months ago one of my lodges initiated a candidate who asked to be obligated on a Buddhist sutra. I was saddled with the responsibility of deciding whether the sutra was acceptable or not. It was, being one of the most famous and respected in the canon. That part of the ceremony went smoothly, apart from the problem of keeping the S&C steady on a long, thin and very light accordion-paged book. What bothered me was that this earnest Buddhist was then asked to listen to about 60 minutes of instruction drawing on Jewish and early Christian history. Years ago, a Brother with a doctorate in theology told me that, in his opinion, only a Trinitarian Christian could ever understand Masonry. That's depressing.
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Post by Tamrin on Jun 19, 2011 11:55:33 GMT 10
My take on this difficulty hinges on intent. If one finds the Jewish content disturbing because it is seen as an unnecessary difficulty in the ritual that is one thing. However, for the Baileys, it is another thing entirely. For them, the Jewish content is disturbing because of their attitude toward Jews. Clearly, it is not a matter of simplification for ease of understanding, pronunciation and memorization, as they and their adherents have a penchant for Sanskrit names and terms, which themselves present difficulties.
Mind you, some difficulty, even strangeness, may be useful in serving to imprint our lessons.
My tendency is to regard the Jewish context and content as much a part of our traditions as are the stonework context and content. Certainly, our lessons could be learned without either the Jewish or stonework metaphors but it would be so different as to another tradition entirely. With my notions of Asherah being the key to the genuine secrets of the 3°, the Jewish flavour (or rather the pre-Jewish flavour) is appropriate.
Among the features of the Craft I find embarrassing are Victorian-era customs, such as insistence on formal wear, endless toasts and "masonic fire."
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Post by Smithee on Jan 31, 2012 11:34:13 GMT 10
[The claim that] The Baileys' channeled 'Tibetan Master' Djwhal Khul (DK) leaves me so cold I'm frosty. On one hand, we find Alice's work with D.K. began around the time she met Foster Bailey; she moved into a closer relationship with D.K. around the time she and Foster married; and, when she died, Foster became the mouth-piece for D.K.!? On the other hand, we find that for a 'Master of the Wisdom,' D.K. was surprisingly anti-Semitic: Speaking often of the obsolete 'Jewish Dispensation;' referring to their stereotypical materialism; denying the holocaust; and attributing much of the evil in the world to them. / Foster Bailey / Djwhal Khul
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Post by Tamrin on Jan 31, 2012 16:34:17 GMT 10
Thanks Alan I took the liberty of combining them into one image. Obviously a few liberties have been taken with the image of DK, to make him look more spiritual (chiefly the symmetry) and more Eastern, but I'd say it's not a bad identikit likeness of FB.
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Post by Tamrin on Jan 21, 2014 1:02:10 GMT 10
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